BY SID
The book “Kill Tha G Word,” curated by Maurizio D’Apollo, tells the story of Phase 2 in Italy between 1984 and 2012. This volume represents an important contribution to documenting the history of Hip Hop in our country, highlighting the crucial role that Phase 2 played in the development of the local scene. We asked Maurizio a few questions to explore the genesis of the book and its long gestation.
Why make a book about Phase’s stay in Italy??
When I discovered writing in ’95, the movement was experiencing a period of great media exposure: diaries, backpacks, notebooks, the writings were everywhere, not just in cities. That same year, Miki Degni and his brother, two photographers who had been following the scene for about ten years, organized an event called ‘Arte Spray’ at the Museum of Science and Technology, where Phase also painted among others. It was something completely different from anything I had seen up to that moment, indecipherable, and this was precisely what intrigued me most as a young boy: doing something that only a few understood.
When I learned of his death, my mind went back to those days and I thought that his Italian story also risked remaining something indecipherable, for few. So I decided to put down on paper the stages of his journey in our country, to preserve his legacy. I never thought of creating a monograph about him: KTGW wants to be a tribute
What was the research and collection process for this book? How long did it take?
I always believed, from the early stages of this project, that the book should develop chronologically, starting from 1984, when Phase first came to paint in Italy, up to his last work in Bologna in 2012. The stories that intertwine in the book are the result of connections between the people themselves: each interview allowed me to add a piece and led me to the next one. I commuted between Milan, Bologna, and Rimini to complete most of the interviews. When I started to have enough material, I dedicated myself to graphic design and layout, and in about two years, the book was finished. It was a wonderful journey!
What impact did Phase have on the Italian Hip Hop and writing scene during his stays in our country?
I don’t think there’s a single answer to this question, or at least I can’t provide one. What I understood, putting all the pieces together, is that Phase had an incredible ability to understand where things “happened.” If you look from a certain distance at the history of Italian Hip Hop from 1984 to 2000, or at least the moments that left a mark, he was always there with those who were at the forefront: in the eighties with the first generation of b-boys from the Muretto, in the nineties with writing crews CKC and 16K in Milan and SPA in Bologna, on Neffa and Chief’s records first, and then with Gente Guasta and La Finnezza Click. Many of these people were influenced by his words, they were inevitably involved and made them their own. Kill tha G Word is the perfect example: for those who approached Hip Hop culture in the nineties, thanks to these people, the fact that “graffiti” was not the correct term to define writing was common knowledge.
Perché Phase era così contrario all’uso del termine “graffiti”? Qual era la sua visione alternativa?
The issue is deeper than it might seem to us today. It was the media that gave that name to what was happening in NY in the early seventies; it didn’t come from the protagonists of the movement. Initially, with the arrival of art galleries, many accepted that term to enter a world where their art had economic recognition. And so that word became established. In one of his interviews, I think he explains the point exactly:
“It’s not about hating the term. It’s much more than that. It’s about appropriation. Being ‘correct’ according to our criteria and not according to the guidelines of some pseudo-authority. We claim to be hardcore, but we don’t have the courage to free ourselves from the nonsense imposed on us. ‘Graffiti’ is not what we called it. There was no such word in our vocabulary. I have to go back to issues like Indians and Blacks. What is a Black, really? A reappropriation of those who already had titles long before someone less informed or less interested decided to call them that.”
What were the most significant moments or events of Phase’s presence in Italy that emerge from the book?
Basically, I would answer all of them! He participated in conventions that have become legendary, as well as his covers for Tribe Magazine or articles in Aelle. Even the features I mentioned earlier are still very powerful today.
How has the Italian writing and Hip Hop scene changed from Phase’s first arrival in 1984 until his last appearance in 2012?
The scene is constantly evolving, and that’s an intrinsic characteristic of Hip Hop. Phase followed the evolution of the movement in Italy from day one, starting in the eighties, when breaking was the starting point for many who later became writers, rappers, or DJs. Sometimes I imagined that for him it was like a déjà-vu, being in a country where everything was just beginning, without the distortions he had already seen happen in New York.
What were the main challenges in chronologically reconstructing Phase’s Italian journey?
The photos! It was hell trying to recover any images of murals done by Phase in Italy. At that time, there were no digital cameras yet, developing film was expensive, and very few people archived material from those years. Rusty, one of the voices in the book, had a really well-curated archive, and it was fundamental in finding several murals. The biggest challenge was reconstructing the mural that Phase painted with SPA at Ponte Stalingrado. I only had details and incomplete photos, but by continuing to search, I managed to piece it together. I think I used about seventy photos in total, which is crazy.
What legacy has Phase left to Hip Hop culture and writing in Italy in your opinion?
I’ll answer with a quote from Sky 4, a Milanese writer to whom Phase dedicated a special in the last issue of IGTimes:
“I believe that, unknowingly, he left his touch on the scene, not so much at a stylistic level, but at the level of soul and attitude. The culture behind writing was really important to him. The Hip Hop spirit was present in everything he did: from writing to rap, to breaking, to the way of thinking and living life itself.”
Is there any anecdote or unpublished story about Phase in Italy that you discovered during the creation of the book and would like to share?
There are several, but I prefer to let those who read the book discover them for themselves. However, I have a particular anecdote that concerns Aelle Magazine itself. In an old issue, there was a detail of one of his pieces on which he had drawn a letter with a marker. After a thousand searches, I realized that piece was done in Rome, during the Quartieri Convention in 1995. Some time later, I was looking for better photos of a jam in Messina in 2000, and I managed to contact a guy who had them. While talking, he told me that he had met Phase many years before, during that jam in Rome. He had stayed to watch him paint the whole time and, at one point, Phase, to explain how to write the letters of his name, drew an “E” with a marker on his piece. I couldn’t believe it; it was incredible to discover by chance that small fragment of history.
How do you think this book can contribute to the understanding and documentation of the history of Hip Hop and writing in Italy?
In reality, I never had such an ambitious intention; the basic idea was “simply” not to lose sight of the issue: no one will stop calling them graffiti, but we live in an era where everyone claims their own name and identity. I think it’s right, at least, to know the origins of the name of the movement you’re part of. However, telling this story inevitably means crossing three decades of Italian Hip Hop history, and in this journey, you also discover the evolution that the movement has had in our country. In this sense, yes, the book adds a piece to the documentation of our history, which is obviously much deeper and more complex than what is shown in the volume.
What were the most valuable contributions you received from the protagonists of the Italian scene for the creation of this book?
The memories and words of those who contributed have an inestimable value. We shouldn’t forget that I was a perfect stranger asking them to talk about a friend who had passed away, it was absolutely neither easy nor taken for granted. Every sketch, every letter exchanged with Phase also tells a piece of their story. Simona “Rose” from Rimini allowed me to acquire some pages from Phase’s diary, with very dense texts about style writing and the origins of the movement: truly precious pages. This book would not have been possible without them. And I see the meaning of a phrase written by Phase in a letter to Kayone, regarding the restoration of the piece he painted in Quattordio, where the story of Kill Tha G Word begins: “Whether you realize it or not, we are one. Connected and respected.”
